Forum Activity for @LLY

Hi,
First, thank you for your answer.
I didn't found and scientific facts about this phenomena in "Minifie, B.W.-Chocolate, Cocoa and Confectionery Science and Technology" for example.
The fact that is takes around 2 months is interesting..
I observed more pronounce aging in the white chocolate, probably because of the very high milk powder content.
Now, after you shed some light on the subject: I assume that the chemical reactions takes weeks to achieve equilibrium, the kinetics in the chocolate is slow because is solid state diffusion (except for the 5-20% of liquid cacao butter in room temperature)..
Hence, in high room temperature ~28C (in my house) the diffusion is faster and it takes around 10-14 days.

Interesting issue..

Y -

Most chocolate is made to be eaten more or less immediately, or manufacturers rely on the length of the supply chain (typically months between when a chocolate is made and it ends up on a shelf to be sold) to take care of aging. I think this is one of the reasons that there has not been a lot of research into what happens to the flavor of chocolate as it ages.

I was speaking with an expert on this a couple of weeks ago, and was told that it takes 6-8 weeks for most chocolates to achieve reasonable stability (defined as ~80% of expected flavor change). My own experience suggests that chocolates made from beans with lower levels of fermentations and/or lower roast levels requires more aging than chocolates made from  beans meeting the 80% well-fermented "standard" and that have been roasted harder.

I have not come across any research that explains what happens, but chemical changes are happening, and, as the chocolate continues to crystallize, the release of flavors is also affected.

The answer to the question, "How long?" can only be determined by experimentation using your recipes. I had a chocolate made with Mexican pimienta about 48 hours after it was made and then 10 days after it was made and the flavor of the pimienta was more pronounced, not less.

Great! Thanks for sharing!

You could add an informational note to the finished product, something like :

"Rithmically molded bubble free using Skrillex™ @ 50Hz" :P

Hi. I'm interested in the Perfect enrober, and the small panner. Please e-mail at chapelcove@outlook.com.

Tom, I'd like to see that as well, thanks.

Hi Curtis. I'm interested if still available. Email me please at chapelcove@outlook.com.

Hello,
There is no doubt that the chocolate continue to crystallized couple of days after moulding, hence, the texture will change, this is obvious.
The strongest taste changing is in my white chocolate, after two weeks the sweetness decreased.
I tried to put 1% of coffee in my white chocolate, couple of days after the taste was strong coffee with aftertaste. After 10 days the coffee taste is almost unnoticed.

So I wondering, how long do I need to keep my chocolate in order to evaluate his real taste?
And why it is all happen, is not 100% clear?

Thank's

what about dried fruits like goji berries?

Aimee -

There are very few  small tempering machines that accept enrobers.

Chocovision makes one that fits some of their machines, but from what I have heard, it does not work all that well. There is no blower (to remove excess chocolate) nor is there a de-tailer, or a proper take-off, so it's messy and slow. It also looks like it's a single curtain so there could be coverage issues. From what I can tell looking at the Chocovision web site they are working on a new one . Perhaps it will have engineering upgrades to address the issues early customers brought up.

Hilliard's offers a couple of size options for their " coaters " based on batch temperers. From the pictures on the site it's hard to tell how complete the base systems are but I don't see what I would consider to be required components for a fully-featured enrober on their smaller systems (e.g., blower, exit section, de-tailer, take-off). That said - there are a lot of them in production so people must like them.

There are a number of manufacturers of continuous tempering machines - you may know names like Selmi and Pomati. I work with one of them (FBM) and to my knowledge FBM is the only company that offers a complete enrobing system on a small continuous temperer - the Prima . 

I say small in relative terms. The Prima has a 10kg (~22lb) working bowl and can temper up to 30kg (~65lbs) of chocolate per hour. The belt is 18cm (about 7") wide. When you think about it, if you need to put 500 pieces per hour (about eight pieces per minute) through the machine and each piece requires 10gr of chocolate to cover it completely, then you only need 5kg of chocolate per hour. Other companies that make continuous tempering machines do not offer enrober belts on machines with bowl capacities of less than 25kg (75kg/hr throughput).

The enrober FBM offers is complete. It comes in two parts, a working section that is comprised of the entry section, bottomer (sometimes called a pre-bottomer), double-curtain veil, net beater, blower, de-tailer rod; and a separate take-off section.

It is not inexpensive, but as people are probably tired of hearing me say, "You don't get what you don't pay for." If you are interested I can introduce you to a dealer who can price one for you.

For sale :

80gr chocolate mould - New, still in bag - classic style - 140 pieces @ 500USD

40gr chocolate mould - Used - contemporary style - 240 pieces @ 780 USD

If you take both, I will add 40 pieces of praline moulds for free

The items are located in Thailand.

Prices exclude shipping and taxes.

Contact at: tiborbaan@yahoo.com

 40gr mould.jpg - 118KB

Please contact at: tiborbaan@yahoo.com

Please contact at: tiborbaan@yahoo.com

Gami T260 continuous tempering machine for sale due to closing business.

The equipment is located in Thailand.

Price: 4500 USD excluding shipping and taxes

 Gami T260 temperer.jpg - 95KB

For Sale 2 sets of"Macintyre" style conch refiners, due to closing business. They are Chinese made.

Capacity: 40L

The equipment is located in Thailand.

Price for the two: 7,000 USD excluding shipping and taxes.

 Refiner conches.jpg - 90KB

Ah, that makes sense, thanks.

I'm shocked reading papers from 70 years ago that are asking the same questions as I had visiting processing centres last week - and not finding much that's published since or that would explain why the state of the art hasn't visibly changed much.

Besides Zoi's papers suggested by Clay, are there other starting points to our modern understanding of what happens in fermentation?

inter cellular transport of materials is responsible for much of the flavor development reactions that occur (or the precursor reactions).  metallic compounds participate in a number of flavor reactions.

Can you elaborate on this? Googling for self-reducibility doesn't really enlighten (and gets me a lot of computer science results)

Raw honey (Do your own research on GI of this, what I've read and am convnced of is it's the same as coconut nectar, 30-35)  and raw coconut nectar rather than sugar.  Stevia of course, though I don't enjoy the aftertaste

Are these still for sale? Please email me at souleverchocolates@gmail.com if so.

I own a small chocolate business in Seattle.  Currently I use the two-piece silicon molds to make ganaches, and then I double dip them in the basic Chocovision Revolations.  I'd like to grow my business and need to invest in an enrobing machine with an attached temperer. Can anyone offer advice about what machines are best at the lowest price, and how user friendly they are?

I am planning a trip to Southern India in early September and would like to connect with chocolate professionals and growers.

Does anyone have contacts?

I'm a big fan of the Fuji - www.fujispray.com - they are putting together a chocolate system these days after I started referring a lot of chocolatiers there. They do go through the cocoa butter - but they are fast - and time is money.

I've been making some of my own coloured cocoa butters using the IBC Power Flowers - you can get consistent colours using their palette to mix. 

Steve: 

Post-harvest processing of cacao happens at many different scales, from very small to very large. Ironically, it is the smallest producers who might benefit most from improving the consistency of fermentation and drying ... and they are the least able to afford it. However, one way to figure out how to drive down costs is to start somewhere and put the equipment and techniques into production.

Grapes used to be grown on the hillsides of farmers in Israel 3000 years ago, and crushed by stepping on them by farmers who were subsistence level.  Today they're processed in state of the art industrial complexes.

If the demand is there, and it comes with either an improvement in quality, control, or cost - sure.  

Did you find a Firemixer? Are you still interested?

I love the idea of introducing controlled, modern fermentation techniques (along with drying and storing), but can/will the market support the added costs of equipment and training in the poor rural communities where fermentation occurs? 

I thought I would share this.

I needed a vibration table and didn't want to spend $200 for a small one.  I also like to apply technology in unique ways to solve problems, especially when I have the tech laying around!

I was trying to see how I could build an inexpensive vibration table, when I remembered I had a couple of old transducers (bass shakers) on the shelf in my garage.  A bass shaker is basically a sub woofer without the speaker cone.  It's specifically designed to vibrate something!  Typically you mount it in a chair or couch and hook it up like a subwoofer to your home theater system.  Then you feel the bass without shaking your whole house and waking up the kids. 

You can buy these from Parts Express and they run them on sale pretty regularly.  The ones I used are 25 watt rms.  They don't sell these anymore but they have a 50 watt one that should work even better and you'd only need one.  This one is $29 and here's the link http://www.parts-express.com/dayton-audio-bst-1-high-power-pro-tactile-bass-shaker-50-watts--295-244   

I mounted the two I had to a board and a $3 cookie sheet.  I then bought $10 worth of springs from Home Depot and a small amp from Amazon.  I would recommend a slightly larger amp than what I used.  I might upgrade mine to this one: https://www.amazon.com/DROK-TPA3116-Amplifier-Adjustment-Potentionmeter/dp/B0177F614Y/ref=sr_1_15?ie=UTF8&qid=1468344981&sr=8-15&keywords=100+watt+mono+amplifier and this can be set to 100 watt mono to run the above shaker nicely!  They have a bunch of different ones in the $20-$40 range.  To power the amp I used a computer power supply that is 12v, 5 amp.  Don't use the little 2 amp one they try to sell with it.

Finally, you have to use a signal generator to feed the amp to drive the bass shaker.  To do this I found a bunch of free apps for your phone.  The one I got is called "Sound Check" and you can flip through different frequencies.  The 40 and 50Hz frequencies give the most vibration.  Although it's seriously funny to play a song with some bass and watch what happens!

You can see a couple videos here: www.dschocolateco.com/Vibration

 DSC02730 - Copy.JPG.jpg - 368KB

Hi Kerry,

I think this may have been the source of my problem! What I was provided was .5mm . I now have a 1mm needle and it is working better.

I noticed some colored cocoa butters are more difficult to airbrush. For example the white cocoa butter is easy to pass through the airbrush and other colors are more challenging. The purple is a color I have to struggle with.

Have you used any other methods of spraying colored cocoa butter? Have you used any of the larger machines? My main concern is wasting expensive cocoa butter.

Thanks for all your contributions! I have learned so much from you!

Daniel

Hi,
recently I start ponder what are the limits of the santha 11.
Heavy load (e.g thick spreads with 30-31% fat) cause to fast degradation of the engine? How machins can handle thick spreads? bigger machine are meens stronger even if the load is increased?
I think maybe to put on the side the spreads until I will have bigger machine (Santha 20 for example).
Small question about the power-twist belts: is it possible to attached it to tight?

What do you think? how long the small Santha are keep going on heavy loads?

We are getting rid of a large collection of chocolate molds that we no longer use. 

The other thing that comes to mind would be to focus on the impact of alcohol soluble micro-nutrients and self-reducible metals in the fermentation heap.

Curtis:I'm interested. Would you contact me off-line at rgholmes@w-c-c.com. Thank you

Lightly used Choco TT. Chocolate tempering machine. Unit can be seen on Bakon USA website. Semi - automatic wheel tempering machine/table top. 25 lb capacity. I have a Selmi 50 lb and don't need this machine. Was used for milk chocolate a few times. Approx 2 years old in perfect condition.

Shipping is from New Mexico and is additional. $3400   Contact 808-557-5358

Our company makes 8 flavors of Vegan chocolates using interesting ingredients. We have multiple established whole sale customers in the Austin TX area year-round and seasonal online whole sale customers during the 4th quarter. Also included are multiple URLs which all direct to the same online store which does about 90% of our annual revenue.

Heavy equipment includes 2 AC/MC table top temperers with 6 bowls, 1 Santha 40Melanger, 1 Savage Brothers 50lb temperer and 2 wine fridges. Also included are various bar- and seasonal moulds.

Company also comes with all branded materials, logos, certifications and in-stock packaging and labels. We have a dedicated kitchen just outside Austin (Liberty Hill) TX where we have been for the last 3+ years.

We would prefer buyer in the Austin, TX area but will consider other offers. Price negotiable.

If interested, please call 408-832-0496 or email dfdelicacies@gmail.com for more information.

Thank you both for those responses!  That is a lot of useful information and I appreciate it. 

Cait

I would say that the chemistry and microbiology of fermentation is very, very well understood.  It may not be public knowledge that is freely available, but it's quite well understood.  If you are looking to do something that has not yet been done, I'd not focus here.

Where I see the industry eventually moving to is an industrialized modernization of fermentation, much like how wine is produced. Stainless tanks, controlled oxygenation and headspace, temperature control via jacketing, etc. Some in the industry are already thinking in this direction, but to my knowledge no one has begun the work on it on a large scale.  That might be something to begin exploring.

Caitlin - 

Congrats on your journey of discovery ... though I do have to disagree that no one is teaching this stuff. The project I am working on in Mexico includes Zoi Papalexandratou, who has a PhD in cacao fermentation from the University of Brussels. You can go see the results of her work at the Ingemann post-processing center in Las Maderas, Nicaragua. Ingemann offers six different fermentation protocols from the same varietal (Chuno).

There is growing understanding of the contribution of the base chemistry of the bean and the pulp, and how that interacts with the species of yeasts, acetobacter, and lactobacillus that dominant in the region.

I would recommend searching for Zoi's name for research papers she has (co-)authored and then look for papers published by the other cited researchers. You'll see that there is a lot of work being done in this area and that some of that research is being put into production around the world.

In my experience, bean-to-bar chocolate makers need more training on what "properly fermented" truly means ... as the accepted standard of "80% well-fermented probably only applies to bulk varietals destined to be be made into chocolate for mass-market chocolate candies.

:: Clay

Alan -

Cocoa butter is deodorized using one or more of the following methods:

• High temp/pressure steam is used to drive off volatile aromatics.
• Solvent extraction (e.g., hexane).
• Using a flocculant (e.g., diatomaceous earth) to remove proteins (e.g., carotene). You then need to filter out the flocculant, along with any small particles of non-fat cocoa solids that may remain.

If you have a way to get the butter hot (over 70C), agitate it, and blow a lot of hot air over the surface, you may be able to drive off some of the aroma. Using the diatomaceous earth will make it lighter in color, but as I point out you need a filter.

A colleague of mine is trying her hand at cosmetics, however shes using a non deodorized cocoa butter. She says she can stand the smell, but has 50# of the stuff (I gotta agree with her, it smells like...not something Id put on my face, if I put stuff on my face...). She asked me to ask here... how do you deodorize it? Is it something she can do herself? heat or???

cheers

alan